Curse

BigTru · May 16, 2006, 03:14 AM // 03:14

As many of you know, the Deadly Arts line of skills is used extremely rarely. There are quite a few reasons for this imo:

- Most skills suffer from ridiculous energy cost or ridiculous recharge a combination of the both. This in itself would not be so bad if it weren't for thefact that a truely dangerous hex will most likely be removed a few seconds later.

- A lot of these skills (Enduring Toxin, Shameful Fear, Scorpion Wire) are countered by the actions of the victim. If you see Enduring Toxin on you, you'll know exactly how to counter it (which is quite easy). Other skills (Assassin's Promise, Impale, Mark of Death) forshadow EXACTLY who you're assassin is targeting. Using Assassin's Promise is like putting a huge, red, flashing neon target on your future victim's forehead and shouting out on an intercom "Hi, I plan on killing you. Please do not prebuff yourself/run away/remove this hex". Why would an Assassin give away his intended actions?

- An Assassin without a self-heal is a dead Assassin. It is quite obvious that Deadly Arts does not stand on it's own and a decent level of Dagger Mastery and Critical Strikes is needed to make A LOT of these skills effective. That in itself is not so bad, but there is not any viable healing skills in the deadly arts line for the Assassin.

If I had just one suggestion for the Deadly Arts line, it'd be so that the victim of a Deadly Arts hex cannot see which deadly arts hex is on them. Perhaps have the same purple arrow next to their name on the party screen so that itmay be removed. I know some might feel this is overpowering, but I think that A.Net has been OVERLY careful with the Assassin profession, to the point where there are really only 2-3 viable Assassin combos for use in serious PvP. Was the Shadow of Refuge and Temple Strike nerf really needed? No, I still concidered Temple Strike a mediocre elite before the nerf, now it's horrible. It feels like half the skills Assassins and Ritualists get were nerfed before we even recieved them. I think it's time to buff a lot of skills and skill lines. Would the Deadly Arts line be powerful from this buff? Certainly. But it would still suffer from many of it's current flaws; horrible recharge/energy cost, conditional use of most skills, and lack of healing.

BahamutKaiser · May 16, 2006, 04:39 AM // 04:39

I agree that these skills don't work well for Assassin, they pretty much need several points in dagger mastery and critical strikes to use thier normal attack, and deadly arts doesn't provide healing.

But perhaps in the future powerful builds will be discovered that don't require them to use Dagger mastery and/or Critcal strikes. Right now though, I think that deadly arts is more likely to help casters using assassin secondary class, they arn't depending on regular melee combat, being able to cast some unusual effects on enemies could become very handy.

I think what deadly arts is realy missing is a quick reuse life stealing skill, in order for deadly arts to be functional with a typical Assassin, using daggers and critical strikes, they need to have at least one legitimate healing or life stealing skill in deadly arts, which Assassin can use to stay alive.

I realy think they need an enchantment for Assassin which reduces the damage his target can do on him significantly, simular to shielding hands, but with a much longer lasting effect and back to back reuse, which would reduce the damage taken from attacks only by the enemy he is currently attacking. Assassin can get pummeled pretty fast, at the least, Assassin should be able to focus down on a single target and overcome him, heartily, after all, hes suppose to be assassinating, not compeating.

MCS · May 16, 2006, 04:57 AM // 04:57

I don't agree with everything you said but I do agree with the fact that deadly arts sucks, shadow critical strikes and dagger mastery are all essential for an assassin and it just leaves no room for deadly arts.

mega_jamie · May 16, 2006, 07:19 AM // 07:19

WHy not throw assassins promise on a w/mo, everyobdsy will think, once he spams "I have assassin promise on me, saaaave me" that es in for a lil zin combo, they buff him.

Monk takes combo and dies because all the energy went into buffing somebody else, ok, so its a big waste of that elite sproper use, but hey, it might work, lol

MDeshame · May 16, 2006, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

If I had just one suggestion for the Deadly Arts line, it'd be so that the victim of a Deadly Arts hex cannot see which deadly arts hex is on them.

Do any other profession's Hexes get applied covertly, so you have no idea of what hex is on you? Think balance across the game, not how to unerf one professions skill set.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mega_jamie

WHy not throw assassins promise on a w/mo, everyobdsy will think, once he spams "I have assassin promise on me, saaaave me" that es in for a lil zin combo, they buff him.

Monk takes combo and dies because all the energy went into buffing somebody else, ok, so its a big waste of that elite sproper use, but hey, it might work, lol

WTF?! Ok, try one more time using something that resembles English.
I think my IQ went down 25 points from trying to decode this jibberish. Do we have any translators in the house?

BigTru · May 16, 2006, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDeshame

Do any other profession's Hexes get applied covertly, so you have no idea of what hex is on you? Think balance across the game, not how to unerf one professions skill set.

How is it unbalanced to have a profession with unique traits to their skills? I don't see how it'd be imbalanced; I don't see how it would overpower Deadly Arts. It would make it a force to be reckoned with, but I honestly couldn't see this overpowering the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDeshame

WTF?! Ok, try one more time using something that resembles English.
I think my IQ went down 25 points from trying to decode this jibberish. Do we have any translators in the house?

On a side-note, did you just come here to flame?

Sientir · May 16, 2006, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Hrm...yea, the biggest reason that I don't use Deadly Arts is due to the lack of a self heal. What would be really cool would be some sort of enchant or stance that caused the Assassin's Daggers to steal health. Such a thing I think would need to be able to stack with vampiric daggers; it would be removable as either a stance or an enchant (stance would be prefered imo), and it would take a skill slot. However, it would both help heal the Assassin and increase damage output. As it is, Shadow Refuge is mediocre, simply because of the combination of duration and effect. That, and you aren't usually going to be attacking while using it. I personally feel that the health gain should be automatically granted, but anyway.

Deadly Arts does suffer from some serious issues, the biggest being a self heal. Perhaps if Way of Perfection was moved to Critical Strikes, this might be improved, and Deadly Arts could see some use. Just some random thoughts.

As to the post by mega_jamie, I believe he is suggesting using Assassin's Promise as a decoy, casting it on a target to drain energy in protective measures and then attacking a different target. He also added that such would be an incorrect usage of the skill's original purpose, as well as a slight energy taxation.

Phades · May 16, 2006, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

How is it unbalanced to have a profession with unique traits to their skills? I don't see how it'd be imbalanced; I don't see how it would overpower Deadly Arts. It would make it a force to be reckoned with, but I honestly couldn't see this overpowering the game.

The theory is that it would be similar to how ritualist weapon buffs cant be removed. Considering the overal state of enchantment removal versus the cost and reuse of some enchantments, many enchantments are already effectivly unremovable.

I do think that hiding hexes passivly is a mistake though. It is a similar mistake that expertise is, with regards to being passive. There were a few different suggestions in the old assassin thread regarding skills to hide hexes that were passed over by the dev team. Actually i think the thread was read by them, but virtually all the ideas were passed over or possibly reserved for something different in the future.

Of course there have been commentaries regarding the dev team possibly operating in a vaccume due to the current displeasure in feedback given from the player base. Personally i think its hard to tell at times if anything is being seriously considered that comes out of the forums. The last time i could point at something and say for certain it had origins from the playerbase was the christmass snowball fights. Time will tell i suppose.

Ken Dei · May 17, 2006, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Perhaps a Deadly Arts skill as follows:

Shrouded Intentions:

Cost: 10e
Cast: 1/2s
Recharge: 30s

Hex Spell
For (5...20s) target foe can not see hexes aquired from the caster, including Shrouded Intentions. The duration of all other hexes on target foe are reduce by 1/3 of their current remaining duration.

Skill Translation:

-If the player casts Shrouded Intentions + Assassin's promise, niether hex would be visible in the "conditions/hexes/enchantments" Zone, but the purple down arrow would show up, for the sake of fairness.

-The "price" you pay for making your other hexes "invisible" is lessening of their effectiveness. For Example:

You run a A/Me. You Cast Shrouded Intentions, and then Images of Remorse (Mesmer Degen Spell). Images of Remorse would last only 2/3s the normal time due to the fact that Shrouded Intentions is also on the target. The same would go for any other Hex Spell cast on the target foe while they are suffering from Shrouded Intentions.

Wolydarg · May 17, 2006, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Dei

Perhaps a Deadly Arts skill as follows:

Shrouded Intentions:

Cost: 10e
Cast: 1/2s
Recharge: 30s

Hex Spell
For (5...20s) target foe can not see hexes aquired from the caster, including Shrouded Intentions. The duration of all other hexes on target foe are reduce by 1/3 of their current remaining duration.

Skill Translation:

-If the player casts Shrouded Intentions + Assassin's promise, niether hex would be visible in the "conditions/hexes/enchantments" Zone, but the purple down arrow would show up, for the sake of fairness.

-The "price" you pay for making your other hexes "invisible" is lessening of their effectiveness. For Example:

You run a A/Me. You Cast Shrouded Intentions, and then Images of Remorse (Mesmer Degen Spell). Images of Remorse would last only 2/3s the normal time due to the fact that Shrouded Intentions is also on the target. The same would go for any other Hex Spell cast on the target foe while they are suffering from Shrouded Intentions.

Very very bad idea, not meaning to put you down or anything..but lets suppose you have a Me/A, shrouded intentions, then you just spam wastrel's worries, the wastrel's worries goes down extra fast and deals more damage...spammable, too..

This is something that will get rethought by Anet sooner or later, they're not going to leave 20+ skills that are useless

Like BM, deadly arts will probably get a buff sometimes to make it more attractive

Ken Dei · May 17, 2006, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolydarg

Very very bad idea, not meaning to put you down or anything..but lets suppose you have a Me/A, shrouded intentions, then you just spam wastrel's worries, the wastrel's worries goes down extra fast and deals more damage...spammable, too..

This is something that will get rethought by Anet sooner or later, they're not going to leave 20+ skills that are useless

Like BM, deadly arts will probably get a buff sometimes to make it more attractive

*rolls my eyes*

Simple solution, make it work with other Deadly Arts only. Oh gee, it's now fixed, guess it wasn't a "very, very bad idea."

Suggest something useful instead of wasting my time.

Wolydarg · May 17, 2006, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Sorry, I guess it's just my style of thinking to look for problems rather than solutions..my bad, was only following your A/Me model.

In which case, I have nothing else to contribute to this thread as I lack the creativity to think up solutions =(

But for those who want to make Deadly Arts hexes invisible, would they still see "-18 (Shameful Fear)" or just -18's around their screen?

Warskull · May 17, 2006, 04:40 AM // 04:40

You vastly underestimate the deadly arts line. Not every skill is great, but it has enough skills to make it extremely useful.

bilateralrope · May 17, 2006, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDeshame

WTF?! Ok, try one more time using something that resembles English.
I think my IQ went down 25 points from trying to decode this jibberish. Do we have any translators in the house?

You haven't been in many chatrooms have you ?

He's saying to place assassins promise on someone you dont plan to attack, so that the enemy monks go and buff him

Terra Xin · May 17, 2006, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Yeah I only use the assassin's deadly arts if I had it aS my secondary, they have some very nice spells^^

Ken Dei · May 17, 2006, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolydarg

Sorry, I guess it's just my style of thinking to look for problems rather than solutions..my bad, was only following your A/Me model.

In which case, I have nothing else to contribute to this thread as I lack the creativity to think up solutions =(

But for those who want to make Deadly Arts hexes invisible, would they still see "-18 (Shameful Fear)" or just -18's around their screen?

Don't take what I said seriously, something bad possessed me at that particular moment. I don't usually blow up on people like that unless they were nasty first, and you weren't. My appologies.

As for:

"But for those who want to make Deadly Arts hexes invisible, would they still see "-18 (Shameful Fear)" or just -18's around their screen"

I didn't understand it, perhaps you could reword it to clarify/elaborate?

Phades · May 17, 2006, 06:02 AM // 06:02

When you get damaged by things like empathy, kindle arrows, or other skills/augmentations that have independant damage bonuses there will be the name in captions. This is the tip off that he was alluding towards. This was an older discussion brought up with the original idea of hiding hexes. The same could be stated with some enchantments like mark of protection, rof, or prot spirit, where the target obviously has/had a enchantment, but you cant see which it is. Its something that experience playing the game gives the player and it was thought that newer players might be exploited by such things.

Later it was brought up that even though an experienced player might identify what is going on, but could be construded as something overly akward to deal with without a direct counter. So, naturally people thought of ways to see through ways to mask the skills with counter skills. The concern brought up at the time would be that people would begin to be playing different games instead of enhacing the existing one with such things.

Personally i dont see a problem with it overall, as long as it is not a passive bonus.

floppinghog · May 21, 2006, 10:57 PM // 22:57

does anyone think shadow refuge was overpowered before it got nerfed prior to the release?

(can someone point out if it had regen before nerf? i can't recall)
it used to make all dmg = half and after the 4 seconds you were healed for the amount, now it gives regen for 4 secs.... and heals u the bit IF YOUR attacking. seriously, its just plain crap - and thats all an assassin really has. you cant spec many pts anywhere into a subclass..

the way the game is now, i don't think the original was overpowered IMO. they have no other real heals. death's charge fails to show me a true use... recharge of 45 secs is so horrible. and (on topic) i agree, deadly arts is REALLY LACKING imo. its so bare, isnt the assassin a whole new class? its so NOT something that brings many useful + interesting ideas..

dargon · May 21, 2006, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Scorpion Wire in gvg, is just plain nasty as a way to take down a flag runner. Hit him with it, run away, teleport to him knocking him down and proceed to kill him. I wonder if anyone has used the scorpion wire teleport to get into a base, or do walls block it?

Morgana · May 21, 2006, 11:57 PM // 23:57

I think all shadow steps work the same.. you can only teleport somewhere that you could walk to. (You can't go through walls, but if one of the gates is open, you -can- get into the base).

And I like the suggestion of putting Way of Perfection in Crit Strikes.. probably they only need to switch a few more skills around to make it so Shadow Arts isn't as much of a necessity.. or add some daggers that use the other att lines..